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@ -546,9 +546,99 @@ Power in the strict sense of having power over others</p>
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Ah gotcha. Even then, I choose to hope that there is a way where, if you do have power over others, then there is a way to use it responsibly and compassionately</p>
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Ah gotcha. Even then, I choose to hope that there is a way where, if you do have power over others, then there is a way to use it responsibly and compassionately</p>
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<p><strong>Elissa, Mistress of The Dark — Today at 12:25 PM</strong><br />
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<p><strong>Elissa, Mistress of The Dark — Today at 12:25 PM</strong><br />
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Y’all were talking about J.B. as a modern version of Job, I’ve never heard of thatand I’m also familiar with the Neil Simon play God’s Favorite which I performed a slightly sanitized version of for a production between several local UMC churches. I was David, the drunk son.</p>
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Y’all were talking about J.B. as a modern version of Job, I’ve never heard of thatand I’m also familiar with the Neil Simon play God’s Favorite which I performed a slightly sanitized version of for a production between several local UMC churches. I was David, the drunk son.</p>
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<p><strong>Madison — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Poking through the Alter translation and boy, he does not like Elihu.</p>
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<p>AT this point, in the original text, the Lord would have spoken out from the whirlwind, but a lapse in judgment by an ancient editor postponed that brilliant consummation for six chapters in which the tedious Elihu is allowed to hold forth.</p>
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<p><strong>DandyMan — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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roasted</p>
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<p><strong>Corn — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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to be fair its apparently six damn chapters of the dude talkin shit</p>
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<p><strong>Madison — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Yeah, and not even done well like the rest of the book as a later interpolation.</p>
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<p><strong>Mr. Destructicity — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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To me it feels less like Marduk v. Tiamat and more like Ba’al Hadad v. Yamm, the Insatiable Sea (though both stories appear to be related)</p>
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<p><strong>Mr. Destructicity — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Theodicy really only arises when there is a God who is omnipotent, omniscient/omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. Take away any of those aspects and there is no problem.</p>
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<p>(Yeah, I realize I’m like two days late to the convo. Great episode, though. One of my absolute favorites.)</p>
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<p><strong>Kivutar — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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I am with you here</p>
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<p>I’m not too bothered because gods in my conception are 0/3</p>
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<p>From my perspective all the various arguments that keep an o/o/o god just feel gaslighty</p>
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<p>But on the other hand I’m not that bothered by the idea of eldritch cosmic forces that don’t care</p>
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<p>Mainly because those objectively exist, even if you’re a hard materialist there are tsunamis and plate tectonics and the sun</p>
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<p>And we’re all fine accepting that the sun giveth and the sun taketh away, that’s just common sense</p>
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<p>Why would gods be different?</p>
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<p>/oblig</p>
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<p><strong>Madison — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Is the omniscient/omnipotent/omnibenevolent triad a Christian thing? It feels very, like…500s CE to me, for some reason.</p>
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<p><strong>Kivutar — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Yes</p>
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<p>I think?</p>
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<p>Obviously I don’t know if all christians adhere to it</p>
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<p><strong>Brad Ulfhrokr — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Yeah, you get that starting in early Christianity, reflecting the influence of Platonism, and now it’s a feature of most Christian orthodoxies.</p>
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<p><strong>Beriah — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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It’s a shift, I think, toward having to justify why a deity should be worshipped. In the older times, people found a cosmic protection racket (nice village you got here… shame if something were to happen to it) very sensible. If you get to a point where it’s clear that even doing all possible propitiating, sometimes/often bad stuff happens to good worshippers, well, it gets harder to have religion without making a total Mary Sue out of your deity.</p>
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<p>I think most modern people would agree that a god who is powerful and knowledgeable but doesn’t act in the interest of their believers isn’t worth the time to worship, likewise one who’s good but can’t help, or good and strong but doesn’t know what you need</p>
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<p><strong>Kivutar — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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That depends on what you’re getting out of worship</p>
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<p><strong>Mr. Destructicity — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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It may be also a matter of scale. Once your religion starts getting powerful and widespread you just start elbowing other gods out of the way or assimilating them</p>
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<p><strong>Beriah — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Though, actually, the “blind watchmaker” line of thought does lean toward a deity who absolutely could help if they actually knew what you needed and chose to intervene</p>
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<p><strong>Kivutar — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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If worship was purely utilitarian it wouldn’t exist</p>
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<p><strong>Beriah — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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True, and at that point marketing becomes a big deal</p>
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<p>Sure. I pray with no expectation of divine awareness or reciprocity, because I need to express gratitude for and amazement at the things in this world worthy of praise</p>
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<p>But I think the success of antichrist prosperity gospel preachers is evidence that many people feel a strong need for a higher power who can be reliably propitiated on their behalf.</p>
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<p><strong>Kivutar — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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More or less the same for me, I think any good that comes to me from worship is ultimately placebo in nature</p>
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<p>And yet placebos work</p>
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<p>Which is enough for me</p>
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<p><strong>Madison — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Comfort is important, too, I figure, and if it comes through prayer/worship/etc, well, hey bonus.</p>
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<p><strong>samwise (no pronouns pls) — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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& being part of a community with common values</p>
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<p><strong>Madison — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Agreed, yeah</p>
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<p><strong>Kivutar — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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sigh</p>
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<p>People ™️ generally ruin those though</p>
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<p><strong>samwise (no pronouns pls) — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Community that knows it’s not going to be perfect and is ready to correct course and have hard conversations >> community that thinks it can do no wrong bc it’s blessed by god</p>
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<p><strong>Kivutar — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Fact</p>
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<p>But I would ascribe a lot of that to the idea of an o/o/o god that’s morally perfect even if we don’t understand it</p>
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<p>If you start out thinking that the gods favour is fickle and mysterious and not based on some moral yardstick it’s harder to use god-said-so as an excuse for whatever the leaders want</p>
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<p><strong>Kivutar — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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I expect plenty have managed it though</p>
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<p><strong>samwise (no pronouns pls) — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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I think it also has to do with whether people think followers of God/saved people can sin</p>
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<p>Thinking alive humans can do no wrong, or that doing wrong means one was never following God/saved, seems dangerous to me</p>
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<p><strong>Mr. Destructicity — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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There are, sadly, plenty of Christian denominations that think the saved/elect cannot commit sin. (Which almost always winds up with post hoc justifications that recidivist sinners were never really saved/elect) </p>
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<p><strong>Madison — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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Which also leads to a bunch of salvation anxiety in a lot of those movements. Hearing about people getting baptized several times over because they’re anxious they just weren’t sincere enough the first time or whatever stresses me the hell out.</p>
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<p>(Just finished I Pray You Put This Journal Away and ooof)</p>
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<p><strong>Mr. Destructicity — 04/24/2022</strong><br />
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I don’t know what’s worse, that, or just thinking your shirt don’t stink because you got dunked twice</p>
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<p>Zackfig — Yesterday at 3:30 AM</p>
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<p>that kind of story seems rather common – just like there are a lot of stories about a flood spread across the world</p>
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<p>FlameRaven — Yesterday at 8:27 AM</p>
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<p>Just finished the Job ep and I am having a lot of feelings. Generally I am with Chris - as an atheist, I’d rather believe in a random universe than a God capable of this much deliberate cruelty</p>
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<p>FlameRaven — Yesterday at 9:58 AM</p>
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<p>Now, if God is cruel because gods are just capricious and ineffable, then I’m actually less mad about it? If gods were an explanation for the random forces of nature, or capricious and human like the Greek gods who mess with humans just for lols, then you can’t expect justice or fairness from them. I think the problem of Job is that we have this tradition of God as always just and loving, and putting that next to a very old story of “sometimes life sucks and then you die” just. There is a lot of cognitive dissonance there and it’s very unsatisfying.</p>
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<p>Kivutar — Yesterday at 10:39 AM</p>
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<p>Yeah, that’s how I feel about it</p>
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<p>Being told “god loves you personally and wants the best for you” just feels gaslighty</p>
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<p>Gods as uncaring cosmic forces, see “the sun” above</p>
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<p>Getting angry at the sun for creating a desert is insane, and besides that silly
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FlameRaven — Yesterday at 10:49 AM</p>
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<p>Yeah, you can’t get mad at a hurricane for wrecking your house</p>
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<p>Page generated on 2022-04-24</p>
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<p>Page generated on 2022-04-26</p>
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